for Nor to Believe and Take for Granted12/20/2007 c1 Rose Apprentice
Speaking as a Christian, I totally agree with most of the stuff in that essay. I'll take an open-minded atheist over a closed-minded Christian any day. I especially like the part about whether atheism is amoral. People can live good lives without acknowledging the existence of god. People are good.
However, there is one point at which my bias, Christian hackles rise: the part about scientific philosophy being incompatible with the existence of God. That's an awfully big generalization, no? There are a lot of scientists, my parents included, who see science (aka nature. I agree with you there) as an aspect and a symbol of God's divine order. They experience the beauty of God through the beauty of science, and the logic of science through the logic of God, and vice versa and vice versa.
I also don't necessarily believe that two thing that are true can't contradict each other. Oh, dear. I've just lost all my credibility as a child of scientists, haven't I?
Speaking as a Christian, I totally agree with most of the stuff in that essay. I'll take an open-minded atheist over a closed-minded Christian any day. I especially like the part about whether atheism is amoral. People can live good lives without acknowledging the existence of god. People are good.
However, there is one point at which my bias, Christian hackles rise: the part about scientific philosophy being incompatible with the existence of God. That's an awfully big generalization, no? There are a lot of scientists, my parents included, who see science (aka nature. I agree with you there) as an aspect and a symbol of God's divine order. They experience the beauty of God through the beauty of science, and the logic of science through the logic of God, and vice versa and vice versa.
I also don't necessarily believe that two thing that are true can't contradict each other. Oh, dear. I've just lost all my credibility as a child of scientists, haven't I?
1/18/2005 c1 
9HorseChild
i like this essay, and i am christian. u got your point across really well.
in terms of missionaries, the whole "convert to my religion or else you'll go to hell" thing is changing. a lot of missionaries today mainly focus on helping the native people get a better life (if they want to) and stopping prejudice and corruption. none of this involves saying "my culture/religion is better, so you have to change!"
ok, i'm done ranting. thanks for reading this if you did, and for putting the essay on fictionpress.
~MAY YOU ALWAYS FLY FREE~
HorseChild
9HorseChildi like this essay, and i am christian. u got your point across really well.
in terms of missionaries, the whole "convert to my religion or else you'll go to hell" thing is changing. a lot of missionaries today mainly focus on helping the native people get a better life (if they want to) and stopping prejudice and corruption. none of this involves saying "my culture/religion is better, so you have to change!"
ok, i'm done ranting. thanks for reading this if you did, and for putting the essay on fictionpress.
~MAY YOU ALWAYS FLY FREE~
HorseChild
11/9/2004 c1 4hvk
Very intersting!
I'm personally a believer, but you do raise some interesting points.
However, what about, by things we're aren't mean't to know, but are so over our heads, our sanity would shatter just to hear it?
And an another thing: Science is often boring.
4hvkVery intersting!
I'm personally a believer, but you do raise some interesting points.
However, what about, by things we're aren't mean't to know, but are so over our heads, our sanity would shatter just to hear it?
And an another thing: Science is often boring.
1/13/2004 c1 wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
I agree with you almost completely. I could particularly see what you were saying with the thing about getting people to believe because otherwise god would be angered; if Santa was real I'm sure he'd be quite piqued that I don't believe in him anymore, but since I have complete conviction that no such being exists, why should I care?
I also share your feelings about Paganism. I like nature a lot, but that generally comes from what I know scientifically. I'm not about to subscribe to things I can't take seriously just to fit my ideas into a pre-made mold.
As for telepathy, I'm convinced that it's not really plausible. First, you'd need something capable of reading accurate information about small-scale events happening far away and transmitting that information back to you in real time. I suppose some kind of nanomachine fog might work for that, but then there'd be the problem of interpreting the information. Everyone's brain structure is different, and how could you make an algorithm that could convert the data in any possible human neural structure into messages that could be sent to another brain? It's like trying to make a file format decoder for computers that would not only decode any currently known file formats, but would also decode any that were created AFTER it was written. It's almost a paradox.
Anyway, great job.
I agree with you almost completely. I could particularly see what you were saying with the thing about getting people to believe because otherwise god would be angered; if Santa was real I'm sure he'd be quite piqued that I don't believe in him anymore, but since I have complete conviction that no such being exists, why should I care?
I also share your feelings about Paganism. I like nature a lot, but that generally comes from what I know scientifically. I'm not about to subscribe to things I can't take seriously just to fit my ideas into a pre-made mold.
As for telepathy, I'm convinced that it's not really plausible. First, you'd need something capable of reading accurate information about small-scale events happening far away and transmitting that information back to you in real time. I suppose some kind of nanomachine fog might work for that, but then there'd be the problem of interpreting the information. Everyone's brain structure is different, and how could you make an algorithm that could convert the data in any possible human neural structure into messages that could be sent to another brain? It's like trying to make a file format decoder for computers that would not only decode any currently known file formats, but would also decode any that were created AFTER it was written. It's almost a paradox.
Anyway, great job.
1/13/2004 c1 6Cyanic Blue
Very nice! Thanks for reviewing, but it was just an example, no need to get worked up about it. I like your writing style! Time to check out some of your other works...
Jezz
6Cyanic BlueVery nice! Thanks for reviewing, but it was just an example, no need to get worked up about it. I like your writing style! Time to check out some of your other works...
Jezz
12/24/2003 c1 Emian
This is a very compelling essay. Personally, I believe that you don't have to believe in God. Also, I give you a lot of credit for posting this, because a lot of religious people out there, they really give you a hard time about issues like this.
This is a very compelling essay. Personally, I believe that you don't have to believe in God. Also, I give you a lot of credit for posting this, because a lot of religious people out there, they really give you a hard time about issues like this.
12/5/2003 c1 Tessa
Nice essay.
Some people just refuse to understand that sometimes one just doesn't care that much about what they are passionate about.
Nice essay.
Some people just refuse to understand that sometimes one just doesn't care that much about what they are passionate about.
11/21/2003 c1 7Demeter Rose
Quite a good essay. A lot of what you said about the theists trying to convert you can also be applied to the orthodox elect trying to save the straying few, with the GHB or threats. Or peer pressure in the case of youth classes-"Raise your hand if you believe in God." "Raise your hand if you believe this is God's books." I'm having issues tradition.
I think my favorite line was this one, "I don’t help Mrs Bloggs up from her fall because it gets me “Brownie points” with God: I do it because it’s the right thing to do."
7Demeter RoseQuite a good essay. A lot of what you said about the theists trying to convert you can also be applied to the orthodox elect trying to save the straying few, with the GHB or threats. Or peer pressure in the case of youth classes-"Raise your hand if you believe in God." "Raise your hand if you believe this is God's books." I'm having issues tradition.
I think my favorite line was this one, "I don’t help Mrs Bloggs up from her fall because it gets me “Brownie points” with God: I do it because it’s the right thing to do."
11/6/2003 c1 Jenisita
This is kind of random, but it popped into my head as I was reading this... ever heard of "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel? Since you obviously care a little about this topic it might interest you... it's about a prominent athiest's research about the validity of Christ and God... yes, he does end up being convinced... but that doesn't at all mean you have to be, it just presents some things you might be interested in reading (I've read books about the validity of Mormanism, and trust me, I'm not on the road to becoming Mormon, non biased books are just hard to come by, and since he did his research while still a skeptic and an athiest it's pretty close)... I love how you pick topics and express your thoughts... they are well done!
This is kind of random, but it popped into my head as I was reading this... ever heard of "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel? Since you obviously care a little about this topic it might interest you... it's about a prominent athiest's research about the validity of Christ and God... yes, he does end up being convinced... but that doesn't at all mean you have to be, it just presents some things you might be interested in reading (I've read books about the validity of Mormanism, and trust me, I'm not on the road to becoming Mormon, non biased books are just hard to come by, and since he did his research while still a skeptic and an athiest it's pretty close)... I love how you pick topics and express your thoughts... they are well done!
9/11/2003 c1 amicusveritas
Came to visit to see who it was that read my 9/11 Redux...and lo! twas a fellow non believer...interesting essay on your thoughts...rather gentile I thought...as I am somewhat more of a 'militant aetheist' who views most of the wars of the past 50 years of history as motivated by religious fervor. An excellent point concerning the Aetheist and Morality, eithics...et cetera..indeed, a readable expose of rational based ethics and morality...in lay terms would be useful... well...enough...just wanted to thank you for the visit...enjoyed your work thank you...amicus...
Came to visit to see who it was that read my 9/11 Redux...and lo! twas a fellow non believer...interesting essay on your thoughts...rather gentile I thought...as I am somewhat more of a 'militant aetheist' who views most of the wars of the past 50 years of history as motivated by religious fervor. An excellent point concerning the Aetheist and Morality, eithics...et cetera..indeed, a readable expose of rational based ethics and morality...in lay terms would be useful... well...enough...just wanted to thank you for the visit...enjoyed your work thank you...amicus...
9/4/2003 c1 57NeWriter
First of all, thanks for your review on my essay. And well in this essay I must say that you used a lot of words which I really have no idea of what they are. Soz=(. However I did read it until the end and it seemed fairly interesting... and that you experessed your points of view very good. Did you write this for fun or just to try to make some people understand what is it like to be an Athesist?
It was a very thoroughly essay. Well done!=)
57NeWriterFirst of all, thanks for your review on my essay. And well in this essay I must say that you used a lot of words which I really have no idea of what they are. Soz=(. However I did read it until the end and it seemed fairly interesting... and that you experessed your points of view very good. Did you write this for fun or just to try to make some people understand what is it like to be an Athesist?
It was a very thoroughly essay. Well done!=)
8/26/2003 c1 57tofujunky
Loganberry . . . you are the man! You wrote down almost everything I've ever wanted to express about my views and beliefs. You write so well and in such a sensible manner. Two thumbs up, baby!
57tofujunkyLoganberry . . . you are the man! You wrote down almost everything I've ever wanted to express about my views and beliefs. You write so well and in such a sensible manner. Two thumbs up, baby!
8/17/2003 c1 5Lotos-eater
I always respect people who are not only willing to discuss religious beliefs, but who can also elucidate them in a logical, readable way.
Kudos to you.
I am a firm believer in the earth beneath my feet and the forces that make it go. Anything else is too complicated for me, I guess. I get lots of people who tell me I'm wrong, like a Catholic roommate who always made sure I knew that Jesus loves me. And I'm American, so I get lots of Mormons at my door. I like to invite them in.
Once, it came down to one of them just breaking down and saying: "I know in my Heart that Jesus is there above me!"
I held my tongue, because I like to think I'm polite. Or else I have no spine. Either way, I know in my heart that he isn't. That is fighting fire with fire, I'm aware, which is why it's always good to hear people like you explain the world.
5Lotos-eaterI always respect people who are not only willing to discuss religious beliefs, but who can also elucidate them in a logical, readable way.
Kudos to you.
I am a firm believer in the earth beneath my feet and the forces that make it go. Anything else is too complicated for me, I guess. I get lots of people who tell me I'm wrong, like a Catholic roommate who always made sure I knew that Jesus loves me. And I'm American, so I get lots of Mormons at my door. I like to invite them in.
Once, it came down to one of them just breaking down and saying: "I know in my Heart that Jesus is there above me!"
I held my tongue, because I like to think I'm polite. Or else I have no spine. Either way, I know in my heart that he isn't. That is fighting fire with fire, I'm aware, which is why it's always good to hear people like you explain the world.
7/24/2003 c1 37Sunflower Philosophy
Hello, it's me! Thank you for your review, I let that first flame get to me and needed some encouragement...
Yes, let me tell you, I have my sister to thank for being so accepting. She's an athiest... well... sort of. She's an undecided athiest. After a few conversations with me, that is...
I can understand completely your arguments. You say that it is hard to find logic in the whole God thing. And my claim complements yours- God is not made of logic. God is what you believe. If you don't believe, than you don't. Period.
Personally I think Christians are a heck of a lot worse in this area than us Jews are. To them, belief is everything. You can't be a Christian and not believe. Judaism is more about what you do, which makes more sense according to what I said in my essay- it's not what you believe while you're here, but what you do that counts. Those Christians can really drive me nuts sometimes with the "Believe, or else." Like, come on. If a person saves another human being's life, but doesn't believe in God, they're doomed to Hell...? What's the point of that? We're on earth for a reason here!
Well, that's what I think.
Anyway, well done and good luck on your path in life...
m~* Sunflower, anyone?
37Sunflower PhilosophyHello, it's me! Thank you for your review, I let that first flame get to me and needed some encouragement...
Yes, let me tell you, I have my sister to thank for being so accepting. She's an athiest... well... sort of. She's an undecided athiest. After a few conversations with me, that is...
I can understand completely your arguments. You say that it is hard to find logic in the whole God thing. And my claim complements yours- God is not made of logic. God is what you believe. If you don't believe, than you don't. Period.
Personally I think Christians are a heck of a lot worse in this area than us Jews are. To them, belief is everything. You can't be a Christian and not believe. Judaism is more about what you do, which makes more sense according to what I said in my essay- it's not what you believe while you're here, but what you do that counts. Those Christians can really drive me nuts sometimes with the "Believe, or else." Like, come on. If a person saves another human being's life, but doesn't believe in God, they're doomed to Hell...? What's the point of that? We're on earth for a reason here!
Well, that's what I think.
Anyway, well done and good luck on your path in life...
m~* Sunflower, anyone?
7/20/2003 c1 MauraMellon
Very interesting and enjoyable. I wanted to make a comment about the coexistence of science and religion.
*begin rant*I'll use Creationism as an example here. I have several Christian friends who argue that God must exist because, whether you believe in evolution or not, somehow that first spark of life had to get here. Since something cannot come from nothing, an outside influence must have planted life on Earth.
This argument, in itself, is not necessarily flawed. I have no explanation as to why life exists on Earth, and I don't deny that it might have been put here by some highly advanced being (a la 2001: Space Odyssey). Technically, it's possible. HOWEVER, I cannot swallow the idea that it was God - by definition a "supernatural" being.
One of the main characteristics of any religion is that it expounds a belief in the supernatural. The word supernatural itself means above or outside of nature - and this is what I have a problem with. Nature/science (I also see them as one) encompasses everything, as far as I'm concerned, and the supernatural can't logically exist. This rules out the possibility of God, miracles, etc. According to dogma, God cannot be explained. That's a logical fallacy. Everything can be explained. *end rant*
P.S. Thanks for reviewing my essay on teens in modern society. My knowledge of drinking habits is based on my experiences in Germany and Hungary, as well as my mom's experiences as a teen (she is fully German). I didn't know Britain was different, and appreciate the comment.
Very interesting and enjoyable. I wanted to make a comment about the coexistence of science and religion.
*begin rant*I'll use Creationism as an example here. I have several Christian friends who argue that God must exist because, whether you believe in evolution or not, somehow that first spark of life had to get here. Since something cannot come from nothing, an outside influence must have planted life on Earth.
This argument, in itself, is not necessarily flawed. I have no explanation as to why life exists on Earth, and I don't deny that it might have been put here by some highly advanced being (a la 2001: Space Odyssey). Technically, it's possible. HOWEVER, I cannot swallow the idea that it was God - by definition a "supernatural" being.
One of the main characteristics of any religion is that it expounds a belief in the supernatural. The word supernatural itself means above or outside of nature - and this is what I have a problem with. Nature/science (I also see them as one) encompasses everything, as far as I'm concerned, and the supernatural can't logically exist. This rules out the possibility of God, miracles, etc. According to dogma, God cannot be explained. That's a logical fallacy. Everything can be explained. *end rant*
P.S. Thanks for reviewing my essay on teens in modern society. My knowledge of drinking habits is based on my experiences in Germany and Hungary, as well as my mom's experiences as a teen (she is fully German). I didn't know Britain was different, and appreciate the comment.