1/30/2004 c14 rastavirgil
You must be kidding yourself. Saddam had no links 9/11. I must assume that you did not read my review. I'll be the first one to say that Bush's intelligence is deeply flawed but he himself said there were no links as expressed in the article that i posted. And i have a few question for any conservatives reading this. Do you think that human rights wee an issue in this war? Do you believe the US has jeoperdized any people's human rights while Bush was in office?

1/30/2004 c14 Mbwun
Good chapter, I'm certainly looking forward to the next. Now here I goes...

James, you certainly have an interesting set of morals if you think Michael Moore is an upstanding character *and* acknowledge his "creative editing techniques". By creative editing techniques, I assume you mean splicing together COMPLETELY different speeches by Charlton Heston to get the man to say what Moore wants him to, and covering it up by switching to views of shouting crowds. Or offering a distorted view that the NRA and the K are such great bedfellows (look at history; President U. S. Grant, who was one of the harshest presidents the K has ever known-he arrested more than five thousand Klanners and deployed troops to suppress their activities-later became the eighth president of the NRA). Moore is a liar, plain and simple. Does that lessen his message? Yup-it means that we can't be certain how much of his message is true.

Rastavirgil... Let's go over that resume, shall we?

"I attacked and took over two countries."

How about Clinton, who bombed countries to distract the media from whose mouth his pecker was in at the moment?

"I spent the U.S. surplus and bankrupted the Treasury."

Well, technically, Congress is in charge of the budget. The president can make suggestions, but it is ultimate Congress that makes the decision.

"I shattered the record for the biggest annual deficit in history."

In whose history? US or world? I'm quite certain that Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union had a fairly massive deficit...

"I set an economic record for the most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period."

Indeed. Bush filed all those bankruptcies, did he?

"I set all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the stock market."

Okay, first off, "all-time" and "biggest drop" are redundant in that sentence, pick one or t'other. Second, you're giving the Office of the President way too much power over the economy.

"I am the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner."

I'm so sorry you feel saddened over a man who killed children in a daycare (among others). Sick bastard (hey, if tofu can call me that, I can call you that...).

"I am the first president in US history to enter office with a criminal record."

Does not mean he's the criminal to enter office; just means he got caught at it. And incidentally, there is no constitutional requirement for a clean slate.

"In my first year in office I set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history."

And since then, how many days off has he taken? Not all that many, considering that he's fighting a war against an international, enigmatic foe.

"After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, I presided over the worst security failure in US history."

The president can't act if the CIA and the FBI aren't giving him the warnings. And 9/11 was being planned for years-well into the Clinton administration. The security failure was in no way shape or form Bush's alone.

"I set the record for most campaign fund raising trips by any president in US history."

So? How does this affect his ability to lead?

"In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job."

See above comments regarding the president and control of the economy.

"I cut unemployment benefits for more out-of-work Americans than any
other president in US history."

You have a lot of "more than any other president in US history" statements. I'm not bothering to check them, but I wonder if they are accurate. Anyhow, you spend a lot of words railing against how the economy suffered under Bush, but when he wants to cut back on something... I'd say you can't have your cake and eat it too, but I think it's a retarded expression.

"I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period."

I'm going to stop answering these. One last time though-so Bush foreclosed all those fucking banks?

"I appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history."

Doesn't violate the US Constitution. Why aren't you bitching about all those people Clinton pardoned when he left office?

"I set the record for the fewest press conferences of any president since the advent of TV."

How is that a bad thing? He's spending less time bullshitting with the press and actually LEADING!

"I signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any other US president in history."

The president can't "amend" the Constitution all by his lonesome. He can suspend habeus corpus, which might be what you're talking about... but that's PROVIDED FOR in the Constitution!

"I presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to
intervene when corruption was revealed."

Cuz it's not his job.

"I cut health care benefits for war veterans."

I will give you that, and I'm pissed over it, but that's not Bush alone; other politicos are involved in that, too.

"I presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to
use the national reserves as past presidents have."

Aye, save the reserves for when OPEC gets *really* pissed and cuts us off.

"I set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind."

Indeed? When did that happen?

"I dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history."

Presumably, you're mostly talking about Kyoto and the SALT agreements. In the case of Kyoto, well, twas a worthless agreement. As far as SALT goes... Russia agreed to dissolve those treaties, too.

"I've made my presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US history."

Pardon, but how do you measure that? And anyhow, more secretive than the WW2 Roosevelt administration? Ya sure 'bout that?

"I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud in any market in any country in the history of the world."

Actually, the justice system presided over that. Once again, not the president's job to deal with that shit. Welcome to the federal system.

"Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US
history. (The poorest multimillionaire, Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her)."

How does this affect their leadership abilities?

"I am the first president in US history to order a US attack and military
occupation of a sovereign nation, and I did so against the will of the
United Nations and the world community."

I don't have to look this one up-it's a lie. Assuming you don't mean wars in which US forces were attacked... you ever heard of the Korean War? The Vietnam War? The Spanish-American War? The Mexican-American War? The Filipino-American War? (If you want to point out that the UN either didn't exist or approve those actions, let me point out that the statement about the UN is separate from the first part of that sentence.)

"I have created the largest government department bureaucracy in the
history of the United States."

I presume you mean Homeland Security. Talk to someone whose agency falls under Homeland Security; they'll tell you that it's helped to cut back a lot of the bureaucratic red tape, and generally made their jobs easier.

"I set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases,
more than any other president in US history."

Yeah, we kind of had a war all of a sudden... weren't you paying attention to current events?

"I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Human Rights Commission."

Weren't we removed in the 1990s? And anyway, the HRC is bullshit; China (yeah, that'd be Tibet-invading, student-crushing, police state People's Republic of China) is a member.

"I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Elections Monitoring Board."

See above.

"I rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant."

Now how is this possible? The US is only one nation of a hundred plus in the UN, and what we did never violated a Security Council ruling (unlike the actions of, say, Iraq).

"I withdrew from the World Court of Law."

The International Criminal Court, youse means? The same court that, with all five permanent members of the UNSC possessing nuclear weapons, ruled that nuclear weapons are illegal and since then has had no credibility worldwide?

"I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions."

They weren't classified as POWs at the time. Learn some legalese.

"I am the first president in US history to refuse United Nations election
inspectors access during the 2002 US elections."

That's cuz they just started that in 200 0.

"The biggest lifetime contributor to my campaign, who is also one of my
best friends, presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy
frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation)."

You ever given your friend some money before?

"I am the all-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate
campaign donations."

Corporations donate to the candidate they think will represent them best. Or would you strip them of their constitutional freedom of speech?

"I spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history."

Somethin' like that ought to have a citation... I can neither confirm nor deny, so I shan't comment.

"I am the first US president to establish a secret shadow government."

Huh?

"I am the first president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied,saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)."

When was the last time the US came under attack as seriously as it did during 9/11? It was 1941. And you don't think that any Cold War contingency plan didn't have the president flying away on Air Force One or safe in a bunker somewhere while the bombs were dropping?

"I took the world's sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history)."

Why do we care so much about the world's opinion? Nowhere in the Constitution does it say the president is responsible for making the world happy with America.

"I am the first US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace
and stability."

I think I already commented on this somewhere else... how long have they been running this poll, buddy? Ever sicne we overthrew the Brits and kicked off similar revolutions in France?

"I am the first US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than by their immediate neighbor, North Korea."

How are they more threatened by us? Now, if you'd thrown a "feel" into that sentence, it might've made sense. And anyhew, courting world opinion is not the duty of the president, or any other member of the US government. See above.

"I have removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history. In a little over two years I have created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided that the US has been since the civil war."

Not true; look at the US Civil War and the Reconstruction period. And how are we so much more divided than we've ever been-everyone has different opinions, deal with it.

I'm done commenting on this; I don't have time now to go through records and references. Rastavirgil, if you believe all that shit, you're an idiot. Steve, sorry for such a huge frickin' review.

~He Who Walks On All Fours

1/30/2004 c13 James Jago
I'm going to state that, even as somebody with little affection for the present US government's attitude to the rest of the world, I was surprised that there have been no WMDs found. The West supplied some of them, after all, or at least the technology that was eventually adapted to deliver them. I still don't feel that force should necessarily have been used- I think part of the European reluctance to commit troops to war is because our borders have been threatened a lot more often than yours, and we are therefore a little more sensitive in the use of military force.
Can you honestly put your hand on your heart and say that the Republicans wouldn't have acted in precisely the same way if positions had been reversed? Politicians are politicians whatever country, party or century they're in, and things have been this way ever since the arrival of democracy.
I happen to think that Michael Moore is an upstanding character as well; I haven't seen Bowling for Columbine, but we useit for analysing cultural disparities between Britain and the USA in Sociology. The somewhat creative editing technigues he is said to employ don't lessen the impact of his message.
I look forward to Part 2.

1/29/2004 c13 rastavirgil
I am furious about the disclaimer at the beginning of your essay. It is COMPLETELY biased. It is more opinion than fact and that is the difference between you and me, republican and democrat.
I want a one on one debate away from your supposedly non-biased essay. have you ever noticed that bush didn't get osama? When the country was attacked, he diverted money from the search for this man to go to iraq. This must be the biggest punch in the face the victims of 9-11 must have recieved. Oh here's another one. When bush went into office and got the "If its clinton, its wrong" attitude, he took money from anti-terrorist action. I know you are saying "What would 9-11 be like if gore was in office." It wouldn't have happened. Because he wouldn't have diverted the funds and in 1998 he gave a speech on why DOORS ON COMERCIAL AIRCRAFT SHOULD BE RE-INFORCED. Does that sound familiar? You should read Lies. its a great book.
These were written by a conservative republican:
1. Total lack of respect for nature (for example, the forest in Alaska where he has given the green light to logging companies to begin logging in a roughly 5 million acre area of precious, previously undisturbed national forest). The native American Indians didn't act like this. They respected nature and all the life within it as sacred. Bush respects nothing, I am inclined to think.
2. Big business interests gone crazy... for example, Dick Cheney's former employer getting that contract in Iraq. An outrageous conflict of interests! Also, his tax benefits for the wealthy, at the expense of those millions of Americans who live from paycheck to paycheck.
3. Blatant deception of the American people to get us into a war that we should never have gotten into. True, Hussein is a terrible and cruel dictator (or was), but Iraq never posed an imminent threat to America, only a regional one in the Middle East. And the WMD was a smoke screen to cover his true reasons for going there.
4. Now he wants to go to the moon and Mars. NASA's 5-year budget is nearly 90 billion dollars. Why not take that money from NASA, let NASA only handle weather and communications satellites, and invest that money back into the United States of America? While we're at it, how about let's just let him go live on the moon?
5. Making it easier for ILLEGAL immigrants to obtain U.S. citizenship. Want to know one of the real reasons for this, aside from the obvious desire to boost the 2004 Hispanic vote? Illegal immigrants do not file tax returns, so guess what? They don't get a refund each year. Therefore, the U.S. government gains money by taking taxes out of their paychecks, yet it doesn't have to pay them anything in refunds, because they don't file! Easy money for Uncle Sam.
I like this one:
GEORGE W. BUSH RESUME
The White House, USA
* ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:
* I attacked and took over two countries.
* I spent the U.S. surplus and bankrupted the Treasury.
* I shattered the record for the biggest annual deficit in history.
* I set an economic record for the most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
* I set all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
* I am the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
* I am the first president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
* In my first year in office I set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.
* After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, I presided over the worst security failure in US history.
* I set the record for most campaign fund raising trips by any president in US history.
* In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
* I cut unemployment benefits for more out-of-work Americans than any
other president in US history.
* I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.
* I appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
* I set the record for the fewest press conferences of any president since the advent of TV.
* I signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any other US president in history
* I presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to
intervene when corruption was revealed.
* I presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to
use the national reserves as past presidents have.
* I cut health care benefits for war veterans.
* I set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.
* I dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.
* I've made my presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US history.
* Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US
history. (The poorest multimillionaire, Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her).
* I am the first president in US history to have all 50 states of the Union
simultaneously go bankrupt.
* I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud in any market in any country in the history of the world.
* I am the first president in US history to order a US attack and military
occupation of a sovereign nation, and I did so against the will of the
United Nations and the world community.
* I have created the largest government department bureaucracy in the
history of the United States.
* I set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases,
more than any other president in US history.
* I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Human Rights Commission.
* I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Elections Monitoring Board.
* I removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of
congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US
history.
* I rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
* I withdrew from the World Court of Law.
* I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
* I am the first president in US history to refuse United Nations election
inspectors access during the 2002 US elections.
* I am the all-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate
campaign donations.
* The biggest lifetime contributor to my campaign, who is also one of my
best friends, presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy
frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
* I spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.
* I am the first president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied,saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
* I am the first US president to establish a secret shadow government.
* I took the world's sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).
* I am the first US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace
and stability.
* I am the first US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than by their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
* I changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded
government contracts.
* I set the all-time record for the number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling their huge investments in corporations bidding for gov't contracts.
* I have removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history. In a little over two years I have created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided that the US has been since the civil war.
* I entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.
* RECORDS AND REFERENCES:
* I have at least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving
record has been erased and is not available).
* I was AWOL from the National Guard and deserted the military during
time of war. I refuse to take a drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.
* All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my father¹s library, sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
* All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
* All minutes of meetings of any public corporation for which I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
* Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.
* PERSONAL REFERENCES:
* For personal references, please speak to my dad or uncle James Baker (They can be reached in their offices at the Carlyle Group where they are helping to divide up the spoils of the US-Iraq war and plan for the next one).
More:
Bush Disavows Hussein-Sept. 11 Link
Administration Has Been Vague on Issue, but President Says No Evidence Found
By Dana Milbank
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, September 18, 2003; Page A18
President Bush said there has been no evidence that Iraq's Saddam Hussein was involved in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, disavowing a link that had been hinted at previously by his administration.
"No, we've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the 11th," the president said yesterday after a meeting at the White House with lawmakers.
In stating that position, Bush clarified an issue that has long been left vague by his administration. On Sunday, Vice President Cheney said on NBC's "Meet the Press" that success in Iraq means "we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11."
A Washington Post poll last month found that 69 percent of Americans thought it at least likely that Hussein had a role in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Polling experts said Americans held that view mostly because of an instinctive suspicion of Hussein, but Democrats and some public opinion experts said Bush and his aides exploited that impression by implying a link.
In his May 1 speech announcing the end of major combat in Iraq, Bush said, "The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11th, 2001." He added: "With those attacks, the terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States. And war is what they got."
Bush, while seeing no link between Hussein and the attacks, said yesterday that Iraq was linked to Osama bin Laden's terror organization. "There's no question that Saddam Hussein had al Qaeda ties," he said. Some terrorism experts dispute the extent of those ties, but the ties are not disputed as vigorously as the link between Hussein and the Sept. 11 attacks.
On Sunday, Cheney revived the possibility that Sept. 11 hijacker Mohamed Atta met with an Iraqi intelligence officer five months before the attacks, saying, "We just don't know" whether the allegation is true. But an FBI investigation concluded that Atta was apparently in Florida at the time of the alleged meeting, and the CIA has always doubted it took place.
Cheney, speaking to a meeting of the Air Force Association here yesterday, delivered an impassioned defense of the Bush administration's actions in Iraq, and especially of its strategy of acting preemptively against perceived threats.
"Some people, both in this nation and abroad, have questions about that strategy," Cheney said. "Make no mistake: President Bush is acting to protect the American people against further attacks, even when that means moving aggressively against would-be attackers."
Some analysts have concluded that the intelligence problems the Bush administration has had in Iraq, most notably not finding any weapons of mass destruction, have made future preventive actions unlikely.
In a talk to congressional staff members earlier this week, Andrew Krepinevich Jr., the director of the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, an independent defense think tank, said the discovery that "there was no imminent danger" from Iraq made it unlikely that Americans would again support such a preventive action.
Staff writer Thomas E. Ricks contributed to this report.
© 2003 The Washington Post Company
-
So, Cheney persists in perpetuating the now classic hoax that somehow, Mohammed Atta met with an al-Queda operative in the Czec Republic. The world now knows this to be as much of a manufactured lie as uranium from Niger and that Saddam had nukes ready to launch in 45 minutes.
Cheney, in defending Bush, is calling the FBI a bunch of liars.
This administration is now officially discredited for all time.
And finally….
This is a quote from this article. There is a link at the end...
A U.S. soldier in Iraq wonders: 'How many more must die?'
August 24, 2003
By TIM PREDMORE
(Tim Predmore is on active duty with the 101st Airborne Division near Mosul, Iraq. A 1985 Richwoods High School graduate and native Peorian, he has been in Iraq since March and in the military for about five years.)
"Shock and Awe" were the words used to describe the awesome display of power the world was to view upon the start of Operation Iraqi Freedom. It was to be an up-close, dramatic display of military strength and advanced technology within the arsenal of the United States and the United Kingdom's military.
But as a soldier preparing for the invasion of Iraq, the words "shock and awe" rang deeper within my psyche. These two great superpowers were about to break the very rules they demand of others. Without the consent of the United Nations, and ignoring the pleas of their own citizens, the United States and Britain invaded Iraq.
"Shock and Awe"? Yes, the words correctly described the emotional impact I felt as we prepared to participate in what I believed not to be an act of justice but of hypocrisy.
From the moment the first shot was fired in this so-called war of liberation and freedom, hypocrisy reigned. Following the broadcasting of recorded images of captured and dead U.S. soldiers over Arab television, American and British leaders vowed revenge while verbally assaulting the networks for displaying such vivid images. Yet within hours of the deaths of Saddam's two sons, the American government released horrific photos of the two dead brothers for the entire world to view. Again, a "do as we say and not as we do" scenario.
As soldiers serving in Iraq, we have been told that our purpose here is to help the people of Iraq by providing them the necessary assistance militarily as well as in humanitarian efforts. Then tell me where the humanity was in the recent Stars and Stripes account of two young children brought to a U.S. military camp by their mother, in search of medical care? The two children had been, unbeknown to them, playing with explosive ordinance they had found and as a result were severely burned. The account tells how the two children, following an hour-long wait, were denied care by two U.S. military doctors. The soldier described the incident as one of many "atrocities" he has witnessed on the part of the U.S. military.
So then, what is our purpose here? Was this invasion due to weapons of mass destruction as we so often heard? If so, where are they? Did we invade to dispose of a leader and his regime on the account of close association with Osama bin Laden? If so, where is the proof? Or is it that our incursion is a result of our own economic advantage? Iraq's oil can be refined at the lowest cost of any in the world. Coincidence?
This looks like a modern-day crusade not to free an oppressed people or to rid the world of a demonic dictator relentless in his pursuit of conquest and domination but a crusade to control another nation's natural resource. At least for us here, oil seems to be the reason for our presence.
There is only one truth, and it is that Americans are dying. There are an estimated 10- to 14-attacks on our servicemen and women daily in Iraq. As the body count continues to grow, it would appear that there is no immediate end in sight.
I once believed that I served for a cause: "to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States."
Now, I no longer believe; I have lost my conviction, my determination. I can no longer justify my service for what I believe to be half-truths and bold lies. My time is done as well as that of many others with whom I serve. We have all faced death here without reason or justification.
How many more must die? How many more tears must be shed before America awakens and demands the return of the men and women whose job it is to protect them rather than their leader's interest?
http:/w.pjstar.com/news/opedcolumns/b0gtbbgr059.html
Well, I hope that I have thoroughly brought it. Republican ideals don’t work. Even before you get to their economic views. If you got anything to say to me, please get it directly to me. Don’t just post a weak ass paragraph and feel all big. I got you man. You were just owned.

12/18/2003 c12 giygas666
First off I'll admit that I was very hasty in my comments. I was in an angry mood and I was venting, but that's no excuse for my overlooking the evidence as you presented it, and for this I apologize.
What I was trying to say in my reviews was that I regard this 'war' and numerous past 'wars' and 'interventions' as unjustified and unneccesary...and therefore not legitimate, and thus an insult to our nation and our troops. Saddam never posed a credible threat to the US, and I feel that it was unwise to waste resources on his worthless ass when we have so many problems here at home that need addressing. He was a tyrant, yes, but so are the rulers of China (and North Korea and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan) and you don't see anybody threatenting to bomb them, do you?
Bush's arguements for invading Iraq were and still are empty, but in this case, his authority to do so was legitimate, as I now realize. I'll call a spade a spade and admit I was off the mark this time. Thanks for your time.

12/17/2003 c11 8S. T. Lawrence
My thanks to the Chronic Asshole for being...well an asshole.
-Steve

12/17/2003 c1 chronic asshole
fuck you steve. you can delete these all you like.