for DEATHS OF INNOCENTS!10/17/2005 c1 
18The Fallen Caryatid
Wow...Cthulhu, I am amazed by you, and that's not sarcasm, either. That you have 78 reviews and sparked a debate between you and your readers was exactly what you as a writer should be doing.
I came upon this through Apollyion, who reviewed me with something nice. I went to go check out his stuff and discovered he has quite a few angry reviews. Your review on his site intrigued me, and so I came to check you out.
I haven't read much of your stuff, so withhold opintion for the most part...I will say that you seem to be articulate and good at putting forth your opinion in a clear way.
As for the Iraq War...as a US citizen, (and more importantly-a Texas citizen) when the war first started, I was all for it. My father works at the Pentegon, and was headed there the day the planes hit. It scared me. I lost a cousin in the WTC. I wanted to go to war with any country that seemed involved. I knew that it would come at the cost of servicemen's lives, and I knew that people in my family would die.
Every adult male in my family has entered into military service in the Army, Air Force, or Marines. Some have retired, some are just entering. My father, grandfathers, uncles, cousins, second cousins...everyone. A few women, too, but only one or two. Every active member has been deployed to Iraq and Afganistan.
The men in my family join the military only partly for honor-mostly it's that they can't support their family without the money the service gives, they get a college education without the money, they can't escape the desperate poverty without the help of the military.
It's hard. All of those men are married, with young children. The women gather at each other's houses, cook and mourn. We've already buried one boy, and I know that we'll bury more.
When I see women and children sobbing hysterically on TV in Iraq-I can relate. My family's done the same. Now, I just want it all over with. I'm tired of the insurgency. I'm tired of watching the TV for the latest list of the dead. But at the same time, I'm not sure if we can just leave behind the mess we've made.
That's my take on it. Our boys out there are scared, by they have wives and children to feed. It breaks my heart that they have to die to do that. That's what I have to say about the war. Let's support our troops.
One last note: Cthulhu, when Apollyion said "Its fucks like you that make this nation spiral even further downward" he was talking about America, and he probably assumed you were American, also. In addition, I don't know why he brought abortion into this, but since Tuesday, October. 18th 2005 is a National Day of Silence to Protest Abortion...I thought I might say that I believe all killing is wrong...whether it's a child that has been conceived or an Iraqi or a serviceman. While one death may be mourned by more, I still think that all killing is wrong and we as a people must end it all. Not by bombing abortion clinics, not by throwing rocks at servicemen. We need to end it by stop making women feel as though they are sluts when they become pregnant. We need to have support services. We need to recognize that our servicemen are just doing their jobs, and that the Iraqi people are not evil. We need to stop attacking Middle Easterners on the street, as if they caused this mess. That it for me.
18The Fallen CaryatidWow...Cthulhu, I am amazed by you, and that's not sarcasm, either. That you have 78 reviews and sparked a debate between you and your readers was exactly what you as a writer should be doing.
I came upon this through Apollyion, who reviewed me with something nice. I went to go check out his stuff and discovered he has quite a few angry reviews. Your review on his site intrigued me, and so I came to check you out.
I haven't read much of your stuff, so withhold opintion for the most part...I will say that you seem to be articulate and good at putting forth your opinion in a clear way.
As for the Iraq War...as a US citizen, (and more importantly-a Texas citizen) when the war first started, I was all for it. My father works at the Pentegon, and was headed there the day the planes hit. It scared me. I lost a cousin in the WTC. I wanted to go to war with any country that seemed involved. I knew that it would come at the cost of servicemen's lives, and I knew that people in my family would die.
Every adult male in my family has entered into military service in the Army, Air Force, or Marines. Some have retired, some are just entering. My father, grandfathers, uncles, cousins, second cousins...everyone. A few women, too, but only one or two. Every active member has been deployed to Iraq and Afganistan.
The men in my family join the military only partly for honor-mostly it's that they can't support their family without the money the service gives, they get a college education without the money, they can't escape the desperate poverty without the help of the military.
It's hard. All of those men are married, with young children. The women gather at each other's houses, cook and mourn. We've already buried one boy, and I know that we'll bury more.
When I see women and children sobbing hysterically on TV in Iraq-I can relate. My family's done the same. Now, I just want it all over with. I'm tired of the insurgency. I'm tired of watching the TV for the latest list of the dead. But at the same time, I'm not sure if we can just leave behind the mess we've made.
That's my take on it. Our boys out there are scared, by they have wives and children to feed. It breaks my heart that they have to die to do that. That's what I have to say about the war. Let's support our troops.
One last note: Cthulhu, when Apollyion said "Its fucks like you that make this nation spiral even further downward" he was talking about America, and he probably assumed you were American, also. In addition, I don't know why he brought abortion into this, but since Tuesday, October. 18th 2005 is a National Day of Silence to Protest Abortion...I thought I might say that I believe all killing is wrong...whether it's a child that has been conceived or an Iraqi or a serviceman. While one death may be mourned by more, I still think that all killing is wrong and we as a people must end it all. Not by bombing abortion clinics, not by throwing rocks at servicemen. We need to end it by stop making women feel as though they are sluts when they become pregnant. We need to have support services. We need to recognize that our servicemen are just doing their jobs, and that the Iraqi people are not evil. We need to stop attacking Middle Easterners on the street, as if they caused this mess. That it for me.
2/27/2005 c2 6Zeb-the-Great
I have no idea why I am getting caught up in thus, but I'll say something.
"By law all that happens in an abortion is that cells are terminated, no dead babies."
All that happens? All that happens? Have you idea any what "terminating cells" do to people? Sure no dead babies, but you have denied a poor his or her life. You don't know how that "cell" would have turned out in life. So it's a lot more serious than terminating cells.
6Zeb-the-GreatI have no idea why I am getting caught up in thus, but I'll say something.
"By law all that happens in an abortion is that cells are terminated, no dead babies."
All that happens? All that happens? Have you idea any what "terminating cells" do to people? Sure no dead babies, but you have denied a poor his or her life. You don't know how that "cell" would have turned out in life. So it's a lot more serious than terminating cells.
1/22/2005 c1 Stein
"you have no fucking idea what the hell you are talking about in this bullshit liberal scum point of view essay."
Apollyion, based on that ramble, it seems you don't have much handle on "what the hell you're talking about".
"you have no fucking idea what the hell you are talking about in this bullshit liberal scum point of view essay."
Apollyion, based on that ramble, it seems you don't have much handle on "what the hell you're talking about".
1/16/2005 c1 Cthulhu
"You are quite possibly the most perverted thinking piece of shit on the planet."
Yeah! You are right! We should kill innocent civilians! DOWN WITH FOREIGNERS! (sarcasm matey)
"Its fucks like you that make this nation spiral even further downward"
Huh? Britain is getting bad but I would blame it on the far-right fascists and chavs, not students.
"you have no fucking idea what the hell you are talking about in this bullshit liberal scum point of view essay."
Yeah I do. I am talking about how many innocent people have been killed as a result of US and Coalition warmongering. Just because a veiwpoint is a different one to yours does not mean that it is bad.
"You want to talk about death of innocents, why don't you check the damn abortion clinics and how many unborn infants you assholes kill every year."
Huh? By law all that happens in an abortion is that cells are terminated, no dead babies. Why is it not okay to terminate cells but perfectly allowable to massacre thousands of people living in another country? Tell me that.
"You are quite possibly the most perverted thinking piece of shit on the planet."
Yeah! You are right! We should kill innocent civilians! DOWN WITH FOREIGNERS! (sarcasm matey)
"Its fucks like you that make this nation spiral even further downward"
Huh? Britain is getting bad but I would blame it on the far-right fascists and chavs, not students.
"you have no fucking idea what the hell you are talking about in this bullshit liberal scum point of view essay."
Yeah I do. I am talking about how many innocent people have been killed as a result of US and Coalition warmongering. Just because a veiwpoint is a different one to yours does not mean that it is bad.
"You want to talk about death of innocents, why don't you check the damn abortion clinics and how many unborn infants you assholes kill every year."
Huh? By law all that happens in an abortion is that cells are terminated, no dead babies. Why is it not okay to terminate cells but perfectly allowable to massacre thousands of people living in another country? Tell me that.
1/15/2005 c1 Zeb-the-Great
okay...5 pages of reviews on how many people died in the Iraq War. When are you people going to get over the rights and wrongs of the war? Until another war starts so you can argue about that one too?
Apparently to some here, fighting for freedom and freedom itself is not clearly defined...and that leads to this mindless bickering over the same thing and repeating everything over and over and over again...
okay...5 pages of reviews on how many people died in the Iraq War. When are you people going to get over the rights and wrongs of the war? Until another war starts so you can argue about that one too?
Apparently to some here, fighting for freedom and freedom itself is not clearly defined...and that leads to this mindless bickering over the same thing and repeating everything over and over and over again...
1/13/2005 c2 12Apollyion
You are quite possibly the most perverted thinking piece of shit on the planet. Its fucks like you that make this nation spiral even further downward- you have no fucking idea what the hell you are talking about in this bullshit liberal scum point of view essay. You want to talk about death of innocents, why don't you check the damn abortion clinics and how many unborn infants you assholes kill every year.
12ApollyionYou are quite possibly the most perverted thinking piece of shit on the planet. Its fucks like you that make this nation spiral even further downward- you have no fucking idea what the hell you are talking about in this bullshit liberal scum point of view essay. You want to talk about death of innocents, why don't you check the damn abortion clinics and how many unborn infants you assholes kill every year.
12/27/2004 c1 Made in U.S.A
The entire war is a lie and just one person dying is wrong. Seriously I'm ashamed to live in the same country as that fascist pig bush and his henchmen. This was very well written and filled with truth and everything that needs to be heard. Great job and you're going in my favorites. oh and also keep writing you're one of the few on the site with essays that actually matter and talent to write poety and such as well.
The entire war is a lie and just one person dying is wrong. Seriously I'm ashamed to live in the same country as that fascist pig bush and his henchmen. This was very well written and filled with truth and everything that needs to be heard. Great job and you're going in my favorites. oh and also keep writing you're one of the few on the site with essays that actually matter and talent to write poety and such as well.
12/14/2004 c1 S.T. Lawrence
"No, you'd rather call people 'dipshit' or 'prick' or 'putz' or 'dumbass,' and so on. You do indeed believe in some of the tenets of fascism, as do some liberal Democrats. I just pick on you because I think the modern Right (aka. the neocons) are even more morally bankrupt than the leftist socialists."
Definition of "fascism":
"A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism."
When have I ever shown myself to believe this? I haven't-once more, you're full of shit.
-S
"No, you'd rather call people 'dipshit' or 'prick' or 'putz' or 'dumbass,' and so on. You do indeed believe in some of the tenets of fascism, as do some liberal Democrats. I just pick on you because I think the modern Right (aka. the neocons) are even more morally bankrupt than the leftist socialists."
Definition of "fascism":
"A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism."
When have I ever shown myself to believe this? I haven't-once more, you're full of shit.
-S
12/13/2004 c1 Giygas666
"I honestly wonder about you sometimes Zell. I do."
Glad to see that you're concerned for my welfare. My face is just bursting with joy.
"I can be a prick too."
I'm shocked. No, really, I'm fucking quivering in my boots. The thought of a sweet little boy like you acting like a prick is nearly incomprehensible. Not.
"I understand perfectly what you're saying. You want me to argue philosophy with you? Fine. I can do it if it'll shut you up for once. Ask Calvin-I did it with him the other night to prove I'm perfectly capable of it. So if you really want me to in order to prove to you I understand what you're saying, I can. I choose not to for the single reason that it annoys me to know end. It has no definitive answer, and I'm a person that likes definitive answers, or answers that will at least come to a conclusion most will accept. Philosophy does not do that. Interpretation, etc prevents that from occuring. It is bothersome to no end. This again doesn't mean I'm anti-intellectual...I just cant stand philosophical thought."
All you do in your reviews and essays is interpret the facts according to your political *philosophy*. That's all you've ever done, in between insults of course. Just because we're not discussing then intricities of Schopenhaur or Neitzhie or Plato, et al., does not mean thay we're not approaching these arguments of ours on a philosophical level.
"Your belief structure is based on pure theory."
So is yours. What's your point?
"we don't tell the other they're "facists" etc when the definition does not apply...much to your chagrin."
No, you'd rather call people 'dipshit' or 'prick' or 'putz' or 'dumbass,' and so on. You do indeed believe in some of the tenets of fascism, as do some liberal Democrats. I just pick on you because I think the modern Right (aka. the neocons) are even more morally bankrupt than the leftist socialists.
~Zell
"I honestly wonder about you sometimes Zell. I do."
Glad to see that you're concerned for my welfare. My face is just bursting with joy.
"I can be a prick too."
I'm shocked. No, really, I'm fucking quivering in my boots. The thought of a sweet little boy like you acting like a prick is nearly incomprehensible. Not.
"I understand perfectly what you're saying. You want me to argue philosophy with you? Fine. I can do it if it'll shut you up for once. Ask Calvin-I did it with him the other night to prove I'm perfectly capable of it. So if you really want me to in order to prove to you I understand what you're saying, I can. I choose not to for the single reason that it annoys me to know end. It has no definitive answer, and I'm a person that likes definitive answers, or answers that will at least come to a conclusion most will accept. Philosophy does not do that. Interpretation, etc prevents that from occuring. It is bothersome to no end. This again doesn't mean I'm anti-intellectual...I just cant stand philosophical thought."
All you do in your reviews and essays is interpret the facts according to your political *philosophy*. That's all you've ever done, in between insults of course. Just because we're not discussing then intricities of Schopenhaur or Neitzhie or Plato, et al., does not mean thay we're not approaching these arguments of ours on a philosophical level.
"Your belief structure is based on pure theory."
So is yours. What's your point?
"we don't tell the other they're "facists" etc when the definition does not apply...much to your chagrin."
No, you'd rather call people 'dipshit' or 'prick' or 'putz' or 'dumbass,' and so on. You do indeed believe in some of the tenets of fascism, as do some liberal Democrats. I just pick on you because I think the modern Right (aka. the neocons) are even more morally bankrupt than the leftist socialists.
~Zell
12/9/2004 c1 No Trust
“Zell seems to believe it is impossible for any states to grant freedom to any individuals.”
An individual either exercises freedom or he does not.
”If a state emancipates a group, are they not granting them freedom?"
Writing on a piece of paper that a bunch of people are free does not make them so.
”The Union GRANTED freedom to the slaves. The freedman were then restricted in the South through laws, etc, but they were not slaves, owned by another human being, hence they were slaves.”
Ownership of them was transferred to the Union gov’t, which was made up of human beings, or something vaguely similar.
“Furthermore, when did I call history pointless?”
You didn’t. I did. It’s at least as pointless as philosophy.
”It would be pretty hypocritical of me to do so when it is my area of focus, wouldn't you think?”
Not really. You have a funny definition of ‘hypocrite’.
“So now I want all "ragheads" "wiped out" for Israel?”
Yep.
”Interesting.”
Yeah.
”Where do you make this shit up?”
God told me.
“Zell seems to believe it is impossible for any states to grant freedom to any individuals.”
An individual either exercises freedom or he does not.
”If a state emancipates a group, are they not granting them freedom?"
Writing on a piece of paper that a bunch of people are free does not make them so.
”The Union GRANTED freedom to the slaves. The freedman were then restricted in the South through laws, etc, but they were not slaves, owned by another human being, hence they were slaves.”
Ownership of them was transferred to the Union gov’t, which was made up of human beings, or something vaguely similar.
“Furthermore, when did I call history pointless?”
You didn’t. I did. It’s at least as pointless as philosophy.
”It would be pretty hypocritical of me to do so when it is my area of focus, wouldn't you think?”
Not really. You have a funny definition of ‘hypocrite’.
“So now I want all "ragheads" "wiped out" for Israel?”
Yep.
”Interesting.”
Yeah.
”Where do you make this shit up?”
God told me.
12/8/2004 c1 S.T. Lawrence
I honestly wonder about you sometimes Zell. I do.
"When did I insult your person? Last I checked, I don't hurl insults and curses at people who disagree with me-let Steve take note. Offering criticisms of your arguments is not a personal insult and was never meant to be."
You've done it before. Don't try to play high and mighty.
"I was making that remark in reference to him."
All of a sudden? Your remark was pluralized...grammar isn't hard here kiddo. Unless I'm more than more person, your comment was to more than one person, and Josh called you on it.
"Which is precisely what you, Calvin, and RCS do all the time. So what's your point?"
That didn't exactly come out how I wanted to. Indeed all of us argue the same way, but we don't tell the other they're "facists" etc when the definition does not apply...much to your chagrin. In fact, I'd put you up there with the idiots who call any conservative and/or Republican jingoistic.
"Then you are indeed an anti-intellectual schmuck."
Not really. You're basically telling me that anyone who DOESNT like hearing annoying rants about political theorists and philosophers are anti-intellectuals. That could not be farther from the truth.
"And if you don't like arguing with me, then the solution is simple: don't argue with me. I frankly couldn't care less if you opt out;"
Good...I'm beginning to get closer and closer to that choice.
"I'm perfectly well-grounded in reality. Just because we happen to disagree on everything doesn't mean one of us is ungrounded in reality. This is exactly what I mean when I say that you don't argue well."
You are not. I wouldn't make this statement without reason. Your belief structure is based on pure theory. What you base your political thought on is a reality that cannot exist.
"When did I make such a statement?"
You didn't dumbass...Joshua did.
"So are yours."
Actually, 58 million Americans would say otherwise. But you care nothing about voting, so why bring that point up, right?
"(sigh) No i'm not, i just disagree with your premises. I could say that you seem to be detached from understanding the reasons we on the libertarian side and those on the anarchist side give to support our beliefs. So what exactly am I guilty of that you yourself aren't guilty of?"
I understand perfectly what you're saying. You want me to argue philosophy with you? Fine. I can do it if it'll shut you up for once. Ask Calvin-I did it with him the other night to prove I'm perfectly capable of it. So if you really want me to in order to prove to you I understand what you're saying, I can. I choose not to for the single reason that it annoys me to know end. It has no definitive answer, and I'm a person that likes definitive answers, or answers that will at least come to a conclusion most will accept. Philosophy does not do that. Interpretation, etc prevents that from occuring. It is bothersome to no end. This again doesn't mean I'm anti-intellectual...I just cant stand philosophical thought.
"Some did, some didn't. I believe 'collective liberation" or "collective freedom" is an illogical fallacy. You don't. You and I can interpret their writings all day but we'll never come to an agreement or understanding."
See, this is what I'm talking about. Why bother arguing? I know why you believe it to ba illogical fallacy, but again, it is annoying.
"Here we go again with the anti-intellectualism... Look, if you don't want to get involved in an intellectual discussion over anything, then just ignore what I have to say and may you live a happy life. Or would you rather take turns insulting each other?"
This isn't anti-intellectualism. It's anti-philosophy in the specific sense. Now, I'm sure you're going to counter this with "Well whatever you believe in is, inherently, a philosophy."
"LOL this is hysterical...*you* calling me an immature prick"
No, me calling Josh an immature prick. But while I'm at it, might as well throw you into the mix.
"Since when is it sensible to pick fights and act like a spoiled brat when people don't share 100% of your beliefs? I wonder if you act this way to people when you're offline and aren't shielded by anonymity."
I do it offline too. I dont like people who annoy me and if they're unbelievably stupid, I set out to embarass them. I can be a prick too.
"Joshua and I have actually been remarkably civil to you even as you resort to babyish behavior."
Bullshit.
"Grow up, kid. Seriously."
To quote you: "Cry me a river."
-S
I honestly wonder about you sometimes Zell. I do.
"When did I insult your person? Last I checked, I don't hurl insults and curses at people who disagree with me-let Steve take note. Offering criticisms of your arguments is not a personal insult and was never meant to be."
You've done it before. Don't try to play high and mighty.
"I was making that remark in reference to him."
All of a sudden? Your remark was pluralized...grammar isn't hard here kiddo. Unless I'm more than more person, your comment was to more than one person, and Josh called you on it.
"Which is precisely what you, Calvin, and RCS do all the time. So what's your point?"
That didn't exactly come out how I wanted to. Indeed all of us argue the same way, but we don't tell the other they're "facists" etc when the definition does not apply...much to your chagrin. In fact, I'd put you up there with the idiots who call any conservative and/or Republican jingoistic.
"Then you are indeed an anti-intellectual schmuck."
Not really. You're basically telling me that anyone who DOESNT like hearing annoying rants about political theorists and philosophers are anti-intellectuals. That could not be farther from the truth.
"And if you don't like arguing with me, then the solution is simple: don't argue with me. I frankly couldn't care less if you opt out;"
Good...I'm beginning to get closer and closer to that choice.
"I'm perfectly well-grounded in reality. Just because we happen to disagree on everything doesn't mean one of us is ungrounded in reality. This is exactly what I mean when I say that you don't argue well."
You are not. I wouldn't make this statement without reason. Your belief structure is based on pure theory. What you base your political thought on is a reality that cannot exist.
"When did I make such a statement?"
You didn't dumbass...Joshua did.
"So are yours."
Actually, 58 million Americans would say otherwise. But you care nothing about voting, so why bring that point up, right?
"(sigh) No i'm not, i just disagree with your premises. I could say that you seem to be detached from understanding the reasons we on the libertarian side and those on the anarchist side give to support our beliefs. So what exactly am I guilty of that you yourself aren't guilty of?"
I understand perfectly what you're saying. You want me to argue philosophy with you? Fine. I can do it if it'll shut you up for once. Ask Calvin-I did it with him the other night to prove I'm perfectly capable of it. So if you really want me to in order to prove to you I understand what you're saying, I can. I choose not to for the single reason that it annoys me to know end. It has no definitive answer, and I'm a person that likes definitive answers, or answers that will at least come to a conclusion most will accept. Philosophy does not do that. Interpretation, etc prevents that from occuring. It is bothersome to no end. This again doesn't mean I'm anti-intellectual...I just cant stand philosophical thought.
"Some did, some didn't. I believe 'collective liberation" or "collective freedom" is an illogical fallacy. You don't. You and I can interpret their writings all day but we'll never come to an agreement or understanding."
See, this is what I'm talking about. Why bother arguing? I know why you believe it to ba illogical fallacy, but again, it is annoying.
"Here we go again with the anti-intellectualism... Look, if you don't want to get involved in an intellectual discussion over anything, then just ignore what I have to say and may you live a happy life. Or would you rather take turns insulting each other?"
This isn't anti-intellectualism. It's anti-philosophy in the specific sense. Now, I'm sure you're going to counter this with "Well whatever you believe in is, inherently, a philosophy."
"LOL this is hysterical...*you* calling me an immature prick"
No, me calling Josh an immature prick. But while I'm at it, might as well throw you into the mix.
"Since when is it sensible to pick fights and act like a spoiled brat when people don't share 100% of your beliefs? I wonder if you act this way to people when you're offline and aren't shielded by anonymity."
I do it offline too. I dont like people who annoy me and if they're unbelievably stupid, I set out to embarass them. I can be a prick too.
"Joshua and I have actually been remarkably civil to you even as you resort to babyish behavior."
Bullshit.
"Grow up, kid. Seriously."
To quote you: "Cry me a river."
-S
12/8/2004 c2 Giygas666
Whoops, I just realized that I posted my last review on the wrong page! I meant to post it on RCS's page, but i'm so absentminded, LOL. Sorry if this seemed like it came out of nowhere, Cthulhu. XD
~Zell
Whoops, I just realized that I posted my last review on the wrong page! I meant to post it on RCS's page, but i'm so absentminded, LOL. Sorry if this seemed like it came out of nowhere, Cthulhu. XD
~Zell
12/8/2004 c1 Giygas666
"Had you actually read my reviews instead of just insulting my person..."
When did I insult your person? Last I checked, I don't hurl insults and curses at people who disagree with me-let Steve take note. Offering criticisms of your arguments is not a personal insult and was never meant to be.
"Zell, to be fair, Steven Lawrence is the only conservative on this site who has expressed an anti-intellectual viewpoint."
I was making that remark in reference to him.
"the point both Calvin and I and RCS and many others on this site want to make is that the both of you continue to argue how you're right and we're wrong because other people said this, this, and that-to paraphrase."
Which is precisely what you, Calvin, and RCS do all the time. So what's your point?
"I am far from anti-intellectual. All I am is sick and tired of listening to the both of you schmucks (yes, you too Zell) drone on and on about Hobbes, or Calvinist thought or whatever else economic theorist, political theorist, philosophical theorist, etc."
Then you are indeed an anti-intellectual schmuck. And if you don't like arguing with me, then the solution is simple: don't argue with me. I frankly couldn't care less if you opt out; I just find this entertaining and amusing, is all.
"I ask you ground yourself in reality."
I'm perfectly well-grounded in reality. Just because we happen to disagree on everything doesn't mean one of us is ungrounded in reality. This is exactly what I mean when I say that you don't argue well.
"Making statements like "since everyone deserves whatever bad things are done to them for their complicity in the shitty behavior of criminals, nothing is wrong to do, and there are thus no criminals" are a perfect example."
When did I make such a statement?
"Your morals are detatched from many of the populations'."
So are yours. Everyone has their own individual sense of what is or isn't moral, including you and your friends, so what's your point?
"you seem to be detached from understanding many of the reasons both we on the Conservative side and those on the Liberal side give to support our arguments."
(sigh) No i'm not, i just disagree with your premises. I could say that you seem to be detached from understanding the reasons we on the libertarian side and those on the anarchist side give to support our beliefs. So what exactly am I guilty of that you yourself aren't guilty of?
"Both you and Zell are arguing with Calvin on Zell's board over individual versus collective freedom-something you choose not to believe in, yet if you actually read many of the documents those in the 1770s were coming up with, while you'll argue with me until the cows come home, it becomes quite clear they believed in some sort of pan-colonial freedom...far from the individual self."
Some did, some didn't. I believe 'collective liberation" or "collective freedom" is an illogical fallacy. You don't. You and I can interpret their writings all day but we'll never come to an agreement or understanding.
"Enough with the economic theorists, etc."
Here we go again with the anti-intellectualism... Look, if you don't want to get involved in an intellectual discussion over anything, then just ignore what I have to say and may you live a happy life. Or would you rather take turns insulting each other?
"So while you might be just an immature prick who likes to get a rise out of people (and I admit, I do the same) at least do it in a more sensible way."
LOL this is hysterical...*you* calling me an immature prick...let me ask you a question, kid: since when is it sensible to insult every single person who has even the smallest disagreement with you on your review boards? Since when is it sensible to pick fights and act like a spoiled brat when people don't share 100% of your beliefs? I wonder if you act this way to people when you're offline and aren't shielded by anonymity.
Although I may disagree with people, I've never gone out of my way to insult them, unless they've dropped an insult on me and they deserve a good thrashing. Joshua and I have actually been remarkably civil to you even as you resort to babyish behavior.
Grow up, kid. Seriously.
~Zell
"Had you actually read my reviews instead of just insulting my person..."
When did I insult your person? Last I checked, I don't hurl insults and curses at people who disagree with me-let Steve take note. Offering criticisms of your arguments is not a personal insult and was never meant to be.
"Zell, to be fair, Steven Lawrence is the only conservative on this site who has expressed an anti-intellectual viewpoint."
I was making that remark in reference to him.
"the point both Calvin and I and RCS and many others on this site want to make is that the both of you continue to argue how you're right and we're wrong because other people said this, this, and that-to paraphrase."
Which is precisely what you, Calvin, and RCS do all the time. So what's your point?
"I am far from anti-intellectual. All I am is sick and tired of listening to the both of you schmucks (yes, you too Zell) drone on and on about Hobbes, or Calvinist thought or whatever else economic theorist, political theorist, philosophical theorist, etc."
Then you are indeed an anti-intellectual schmuck. And if you don't like arguing with me, then the solution is simple: don't argue with me. I frankly couldn't care less if you opt out; I just find this entertaining and amusing, is all.
"I ask you ground yourself in reality."
I'm perfectly well-grounded in reality. Just because we happen to disagree on everything doesn't mean one of us is ungrounded in reality. This is exactly what I mean when I say that you don't argue well.
"Making statements like "since everyone deserves whatever bad things are done to them for their complicity in the shitty behavior of criminals, nothing is wrong to do, and there are thus no criminals" are a perfect example."
When did I make such a statement?
"Your morals are detatched from many of the populations'."
So are yours. Everyone has their own individual sense of what is or isn't moral, including you and your friends, so what's your point?
"you seem to be detached from understanding many of the reasons both we on the Conservative side and those on the Liberal side give to support our arguments."
(sigh) No i'm not, i just disagree with your premises. I could say that you seem to be detached from understanding the reasons we on the libertarian side and those on the anarchist side give to support our beliefs. So what exactly am I guilty of that you yourself aren't guilty of?
"Both you and Zell are arguing with Calvin on Zell's board over individual versus collective freedom-something you choose not to believe in, yet if you actually read many of the documents those in the 1770s were coming up with, while you'll argue with me until the cows come home, it becomes quite clear they believed in some sort of pan-colonial freedom...far from the individual self."
Some did, some didn't. I believe 'collective liberation" or "collective freedom" is an illogical fallacy. You don't. You and I can interpret their writings all day but we'll never come to an agreement or understanding.
"Enough with the economic theorists, etc."
Here we go again with the anti-intellectualism... Look, if you don't want to get involved in an intellectual discussion over anything, then just ignore what I have to say and may you live a happy life. Or would you rather take turns insulting each other?
"So while you might be just an immature prick who likes to get a rise out of people (and I admit, I do the same) at least do it in a more sensible way."
LOL this is hysterical...*you* calling me an immature prick...let me ask you a question, kid: since when is it sensible to insult every single person who has even the smallest disagreement with you on your review boards? Since when is it sensible to pick fights and act like a spoiled brat when people don't share 100% of your beliefs? I wonder if you act this way to people when you're offline and aren't shielded by anonymity.
Although I may disagree with people, I've never gone out of my way to insult them, unless they've dropped an insult on me and they deserve a good thrashing. Joshua and I have actually been remarkably civil to you even as you resort to babyish behavior.
Grow up, kid. Seriously.
~Zell
12/7/2004 c1 S.T. Lawrence
"You only think it's boring, pointless, and lazy because you're too lazy to actually provide an intelligent response. I think I can figure out why."
Yes. You are a waste of time. And trust me...you're writing is boring and full of drivel. I'm sorry to break the news to you.
"Cry me a river."
Will do.
"I've already argued why this is a fallacy. And you've already admitted that through your mentions of the Black codes, etc. So you're contradicting yourself again."
What, do you and Josh both think the same way too? The two of you are so dead-set on disproving me and Calvin that you'd totally miss a point just to sound smart-sound being the opportune word.
I am not contradicting myself. I never said their lives were wonderful afterwards. But they were not slaves-if they aren't slaves, they are the opposite: free. The Union, the United States of America, emancipated the slaves. This isn't hard kids. The Union GRANTED freedom to the slaves. The freedman were then restricted in the South through laws, etc, but they were not slaves, owned by another human being, hence they were slaves. Look, I can argue with you two fools about philosophy all day long if you want. I've done it before in my classes...I can understand it, apply it, etc. I choose not to. It annoys me. I dont like it because it doesnt have a definite answer nor can it truly end. It is based solely on interpretation, like many issues involving religion-which, stripped down, is just another philosophy.
You made the bold claim that a government, state, etc could not "free" anybody. The Union did it. You. Are. Wrong. What. Do. You. Not. Get?
-S
"You only think it's boring, pointless, and lazy because you're too lazy to actually provide an intelligent response. I think I can figure out why."
Yes. You are a waste of time. And trust me...you're writing is boring and full of drivel. I'm sorry to break the news to you.
"Cry me a river."
Will do.
"I've already argued why this is a fallacy. And you've already admitted that through your mentions of the Black codes, etc. So you're contradicting yourself again."
What, do you and Josh both think the same way too? The two of you are so dead-set on disproving me and Calvin that you'd totally miss a point just to sound smart-sound being the opportune word.
I am not contradicting myself. I never said their lives were wonderful afterwards. But they were not slaves-if they aren't slaves, they are the opposite: free. The Union, the United States of America, emancipated the slaves. This isn't hard kids. The Union GRANTED freedom to the slaves. The freedman were then restricted in the South through laws, etc, but they were not slaves, owned by another human being, hence they were slaves. Look, I can argue with you two fools about philosophy all day long if you want. I've done it before in my classes...I can understand it, apply it, etc. I choose not to. It annoys me. I dont like it because it doesnt have a definite answer nor can it truly end. It is based solely on interpretation, like many issues involving religion-which, stripped down, is just another philosophy.
You made the bold claim that a government, state, etc could not "free" anybody. The Union did it. You. Are. Wrong. What. Do. You. Not. Get?
-S
12/7/2004 c1 Giygas666
"So philisophical-you must be the smartest person on the site."
(blushes) Well...they always said I was too bright for my own good...thank you sir, I'm flattered! (takes a bow) But IMHO, I actually think that title belongs to Meesta Flames. But all sarcasm aside...
"I bow down to such a boring, pointless, and lazy answer."
You only think it's boring, pointless, and lazy because you're too lazy to actually provide an intelligent response. I think I can figure out why...
"Jesus, I study my ass off for finals, I get maybe 30 mins of sleep, and I'm practically in a coma reading this drivel."
Cry me a river.
"Nowhere did I say "you know the Union freed the slaves and everything was wonderful." I'd have to be in 5th to say that-Jim Crow, other Black Codes, etc are a prime example of the complete opposite."
My point exactly.
"if a state emancipates slaves, the state is "granting" them freedom."
I've already argued why this is a fallacy. And you've already admitted that through your mentions of the Black codes, etc. So you're contradicting yourself again.
~Zell
"So philisophical-you must be the smartest person on the site."
(blushes) Well...they always said I was too bright for my own good...thank you sir, I'm flattered! (takes a bow) But IMHO, I actually think that title belongs to Meesta Flames. But all sarcasm aside...
"I bow down to such a boring, pointless, and lazy answer."
You only think it's boring, pointless, and lazy because you're too lazy to actually provide an intelligent response. I think I can figure out why...
"Jesus, I study my ass off for finals, I get maybe 30 mins of sleep, and I'm practically in a coma reading this drivel."
Cry me a river.
"Nowhere did I say "you know the Union freed the slaves and everything was wonderful." I'd have to be in 5th to say that-Jim Crow, other Black Codes, etc are a prime example of the complete opposite."
My point exactly.
"if a state emancipates slaves, the state is "granting" them freedom."
I've already argued why this is a fallacy. And you've already admitted that through your mentions of the Black codes, etc. So you're contradicting yourself again.
~Zell